7gen Bloc

It's sad that an organization with so much clout and such a strong brand of their own would undermine its own agenda, the work of its volunteers and staff plus the faith and trust of its members for nothing more than money. I will never give SC another cent. Nor will I ever trust them again.

I have no problem with Sierra Clubs endorsements. So long as the money goes to programs within the Sierra Club, I feel there is no harm no foul in the partnership. Now, if the products come out to not be "eco-friendly", then I will be very upset as I have purcahsed the products before.

I know someone who works for Clorox. They told me that the Green Works line is produced in the same place as the bleach products. My concern, then, is how do they prevent contamination of the eco-friendly products.

Plus, if a company's whole history and the majority of its product lines are based on bleach - a harmful to humans, animals and the planet product - how can they expect us to believe they are not just "greenwashing" us or jumping on the eco-bandwagon?

If Clorox eliminated bleach and other harmful chemicals from their product line-up, I could accept the relationship between them and Sierra Club. Until then, Sierra Club has underestimated its supporters. We can't just look the other way in light of this hypocrisy.

I think that the mistake that many folks make is that "organic" dones not necessarily mean chemical free. Even plants require chlorine as a nutrient. It is the volumes and misuse of many chemicals that becomes the problem. Extracts of anything is a concentrated form and can be harmfulto the environment if misused or an accident occurs. That being said, I do think that Sierra Club should have held out for more money, or at the very least an ongoing agreement for regular contributions over, say, a 30 year period.

For the many activists who have been in the chlorine/dioxin battle for so many years, Sierra Club is totally disappointing.
No amount of money can make up for the slap in the face to those activists who have tried to get pulp and paper mills to stop using chlorine for so many years. Chlorine is devastating to rivers and streams, has caused dioxin contamination of fish downstream from pulp and paper mills, all over the world. Clorox manufactures chlorine - and Sierra Club has made a bad mistake in allowing Clorox to use the club in a total greenwash, or perhaps more appropriately it should be called a "whitewash", bleached to the point of dioxin contamination.
Sierra Club is now being governed by compromisers - not real environmentalists, and what a loss and a shame. Sierra Club should immediately drop this Clorox bad idea. The Club has "suspended" several chapters because of their opposition to the new compromising positions the club is taking to this and other serious environmental issues such as incineration, biomass burning/gasification, plasma arc incineration, biofuels, and the Sierra Club's refusal to fight new nuclear power plants in some states. Be ashamed Sierra Club leaders.

This isn't the first - but it is probably the most obvious and public - instance of the Sierra Club's actions that are inconsistent with its mission: "The Mission of The Sierra Club Foundation is to advance the preservation and protection of the natural environment by empowering the citizenry, especially democratically-based grassroots organizations, with charitable resources to further the cause of environmental protection." Time and again I have seen uneducated Sierra Club representatives fighting against renewable energy projects for rediculous reasons; when the weighing of adverse effects of the project to the environment are so minimal when compared with the greater benefit to the environment, Sierra Club should be championing these projects. Instead they are in bed with the corporations. Greed is an ugly thing.

There's always a lot of squabbling within Sierra. But this messy "democracy" that's prevailed has always seemed to set some limits on how much the top leadership of Sierra could sell out.

I wonder if this isn't fundamentally broken now, with Carl Pope basically a dictator doing deals without the consent of the membership.

The "suspension" of the Florida chapter was a really bad thing. Which other chapters have been "suspended" over this?

Alan Muller

I stopped beliving in the Sierra Club in the 90's when I gave them a donation and recieved in return several boxes of junk mail when they sold my name to many orginizations I have never even heard of.

To me it becomes a question of do you always position ourselves in opposition to industry or do we find a way to make industry more green? Is it a bad thing that Clorox has a green line? Will its success push it toward becoming more green?

I buy my natural cleaners from companies that ONLY make natural products. It does not matter to me if a company like Clorox has put out a line of so called 'green' products if they still make poisons. I want my money to go to those companies that don't destroy the environment.

It's so much easier for corporations to piggyback on the reputations of other organizations than to really clean up thier acts, pun intended. Have you read the list of ingredients on the labels of the "green" Clorox products? Contamination from the use of contaminated equipment is the least of the problems! I'll keep using my vinegar and baking soda and lemon juice cleaners. Elbow grease also works. We are just trying to avoid work! I'm as lazy as the next one, but I would like my grandchildren to live in a less poisoned world, if possible!

I have a real problem with the Sierra Club doing "business" with Clorox. Surely being "green" goes hand-in-hand with being kind to animals. I believe Clorox still uses the LD-50 test on rabbits. Such a horrible test for them to endure. Everytime Clorox comes out with a new product you can bet thousands of animals have suffered for it. I am very green and will never buy a product made by Clorox. I'm with you ka8uet, I'll keep using my vinegar, baking soda and lemon juice - much nicer for the planet.

The negative responses are very discouraging. I imagine there are people like me at Clorox working hard to convince the company to move toward greener products, and here the very same group of people who should support and encourage the effort are bashing the progress.

Clorox owns Burt's Bees, one of the best recognized environmentally friendly brands in the U.S. This is a company that is trying to move in the right direction. Please don't discourage the efforts of people like me.

I think some people might be missing the big picture here, or maybe I am. Clorox, as horrible as a company as it may or may not be, I think has been a huge component to this whole green movement! Band wagoning or not, they have opened the eyes of ALOT of consumers that may have otherwise not payed any attenion. As much as I like my 7th Gen products, they do not have near the market or advertising power of a company like Clorox! They are one of the companies that are making "Green" "Cool"! I saw someone say that they wouldnt buy from the Clorox company because they still make toxins, but in real business, in real life, you cannot really expect them to just completely cut their entire product line that people have grown up with and used for many many years! It would be business suicide! I think they are making a pretty big move from being after being the very "un-green" company they were.

Again, I think we all need to realize how big of an impact they are making on the green movement. An impact that really no other company has made before or has made since.

Also, no company or organization is perfect. As hard as some may try! I think there is a lot of assuming going on here when none of us have all the facts! And I think all of us know what generally happens when you assume...

Chris K

hey blnc...

there are many, many of us as individuals who have sadly *stopped* using burt's bees (not to mention the natural food stores who have stopped carrying them...now only places like *target* carry them and tout them as, hello, *green*? whatever.)

this happened *because* they were bought by clorox. really, really bad move, burt's bees. nice move, clorox, trying to greenwash your extant products by buying out a small natural company in an attempt to make your foulness seem more green.

how 'bout you (clorox) stop making nasty, toxic, chlorine bleach-based products (wholly unnecessary and over-used), or just plain stop trying to convince us intelligent, educated folk that clorox is now a fluffy-bunny-sweetness-and-light company, and just stick to selling your nasty products to your alarmist foam-pad-dumb-down-and-antiseptic-hand-cleanser(purel?)-etc-the world-types. woebetide them when resistant bacterial strains wipe them out. then, us smart and truly green folk will rule the world.

gaaaaah...i feel sick at the preying on of the gullible happening. well, maybe not. survival of the fittest, eh?

prove me wrong. i dare you.

As long as Clorox continues to do animal testing I will not allow it in my house. Prove to me you've stopped torturing helpless animals to make soap and I'll think about it.

I have a little tid bit about Clorox. They sent me a email after I posted a blog about the Dangers of Bleach envirowatchers.blogspot.com and stated, "It is made from salt and water and, during normal household use and disposal, it breaks down primarily into salt and water. It’s also important to note that there is no free chlorine in bleach."

Personally, I'm a little confused as to how it will just break down to salt and water. But that wasn't the main focus of my blog, I was referring to mixing bleach with other products and the gases that come from that is extremely dangerous, and very unhealthy. And really, I would rinse my mouth out with salt and water, but bleach...are you kidding me!!! that's suicide!!

"Also, bleach used in laundry does not survive in sewage treatment, so it does not harm the environment. Bleach also plays an important role in the home to help kill viruses that can cause colds and flu, bacteria that can cause Staph infections and Strep throat, and even the fungus that can cause Athlete’s Foot. " You would think that a chemical that can kill that bacteria and viruses, would have some sort of affect on the environment. I mean everything else you put down the drains has an affect, why would this be any different!

Sami

I have volunteered with low income families for years and while there are many valid arguements in the presented comments I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective. Most of you have the good fortune to be able shop where you please, many people do not.
It's true that Clorox is not going to be anyones first choice for "Green Company of The Year" anytime soon (or ever!)but by introducing their version of green prodocts they are exposing green products to people who have never had access to them before. It's a beginning.
I've watched families that would never have reached for a green product in the past buy Clorox's because for the first time they can afford it and it was available at a store they already shop at. People are using Burt's Bees and many other products for the same reason. While I wish everyone could afford buy products from companies like 7th Generation the reality is they have to focus on what they can afford to buy at a large box store which thay are already in. Clorox and Sierra Club will both benefit from this exposure to new markets and in the long run so will those consumers. It's a much needed baby step for a market in which affordability and availablity are the most important considerations.

Good to see I am not the only one who looks at it that way!

No company is perfect no matter how hard they try!

But at least they are trying!

CK

I’m not going to pull apart your writing but that is not an "intelligent, educated" response. You are discrediting the good work of many people!

For the record, I do not work for Clorox but I do sympathize with the efforts of those who are working hard to change the company from within. It will take time to change such a massive organization, but don't reduce their efforts with oversimplification.

Shame upon the Sierra Club and so long to their shining image. I would never buy any Clorox products even if they were endorsed by the Wizard of Oz. Aren't they the ones who have created the chemical cleaning theocracy? Teach an old dog new tricks, not a corporate old dog! With so many new and great resources for reliable and effective and safe cleaning products I don't need to trust that this old dog is really a new dog. Out with the old and in with the green, real green. Seventh Generation fullfills my domestic challenges just fine.

I didn't know burts bees sold out to clorox.
what a bummer.
I'm glad I read through all of these posts or I would have continued buying my burts bees products.
what a shame.
and, thanks daoine_o for the tip!

I am a analytical chemist and worked on environmental clean-ups for years. I also backpack and use bleach, NaOCl, to purify my water so that I don't get sick. Yes, I drink water that has had bleach added. What Clorox claims is true. Bleach breaks down to NaCl, same as table salt. For backpacking the trick is to add a couple of drops to a liter of water, shake it up, and then let it sit in the sun for 20-30 minutes. Sun light breaks down any bleach that wasn't needed to kill the bugs.

The thing that I find funny about many of these comments is the lack of understanding about what is "toxic" and what is bad for the environment. Bleach does kill "bugs". The world health organization has recognized it as the one chemical that has saved more lives than any other because it is cheap and effective at killing organisims that make people sick. It also quickly breaks down once it is out of the bottle which means that it won't persist and hurt the environment the way many other chemicals do.

We would be in real trouble if the food processing industry, hospitals, and water treatment plants stopped using chlorine bleach.

I think that it is difficult to know which product is best environmentally because they don't always list the ingredients. There is also not enough information about the life cycle of the ingredients. For example, many companies include ethoxylated alcohols in their natural products even though half the molecule is not natural. It does work well and is mild on the hands and the ethoxylation is usually broken down quickly in the environment. So, is it a good surfactant to use or a bad one?

Lets see if we can get better labels, better science, and a more balanced view. Any company who is moving to be green is moving in the right direction as far as I am concerned.